I have been writing a thing because I am not playing, and like the third or fourth thing the POV character looks for is a safe place to sleep, which is not actually 100% safe, and involves a trip through a bad neighborhood.
Also, "evil" Grant?
Lords of Gossamer and Shadow is a Diceless role-playing game by Jason Durall which is published by Rite Publishing. David and I have been running this game since 24th July 2013 and the game is now in its 11th year. David plays Grant, and I play Ethan. We started as 30-point characters, two friends on the Grand Stair, exploring new worlds. Over many years of gameplay, these two characters have evolved into powerful Lords of Gossamer.
Mister_Bruce wrote:Thanks rtrimmer for responding. I thought someone would have a difference of opinion, and that's a good thing. Ultimately it comes down to how the GM interprets the rules, but generally if a PC wants to do something, then 1) they will succeed as long as it is possible to succeed and 2) provided that they are not opposed. I think those two points are key.rtrimmer wrote:"Safe bed for the night" predicts the future. Also eliminates the necessity of ordinary security precautions and the possibility of exciting ambushes.I see this as a variation of (1) above. A "safe bed for the night" is subjective, not objective. Ethan looks for a Door that will give him a safe place to sleep. Probably many Doors resonate, but he goes for the one where the feeling is strongest, where there is currently a safe bed in which he can sleep. I agree with you that "for the night" is attempting to predict future events and there is no indication that a Lord of Gossamer can 'manipulate Shadow' like a Prince of Amber to affect a future outcome (e.g.: Florimel concentrates for a moment in "Nine Princes in Amber" and decides that her maid will not walk in any time soon). If Ethan finds that bed, it is in a place that is safe at that point in time but it also fits Ethan's mental model as to what 'safe' means. It doesn't mean that it is truly safe. It doesn't prevent the *evil* Grant from sending an assassin to kill him in his sleep.rtrimmer wrote:"Find Lucien" You can find anybody. They can find you.I see this as a variation of (1) and (2). It may not be possible to find Lucien - he could be dead. You can't find someone that doesn't exist. Equally, you could find someone called Lucien who is fact a close 'copy' of him (i.e.: Caine finds his own Shadow and kills him so that he can plant a body and disappear with everyone believing that he is dead). You could also find that Lucien doesn't want to be found which turns it into a contest of Psyche.
I think the GM can make it very hard for a PC if he doesn't want that NPC to be found. After all, Ethan could say "I want to find Mithrandir", but it could be prohibitively distant on the Grand Stair to find him. There are ways and means.rtrimmer wrote:"Meeting another friendly Lord of Gossamer on the Stair" let's you know who is actually friendly and who is dissembling. You could also, carefully, determine who your enemies are. They can do the same to you -- you can't trick any LoC who takes precautions.Similar to the above, but assuming that you meet that Lord of Gossamer, how do you know that they are friendly? Ethan has Bad Stuff - maybe the Lord isn't friendly at all. Again, I don't see this as a magic "I can find you wherever you are" trick.rtrimmer wrote:"Meet true love" So much for suspense. And, c'mon, LoGs are superhumanly charismatic, healthy, rich as they want to be, etc. and they need Wayfinding as a dating service too? (Though I like the idea of a PC doing this and then meeting their own double. Also, if Masters otGS with superior Psyches can determine what another Wayfinder is searching for Evil GM opportunities abound.)Meeting true love was just meant to be an example of searching for a favourable situation. I could just as easily picked "winning the lottery". I've already had it confirmed by jdurall that you can't use Wayfinding to alter probability (as an Amberite can in Amber DRPG) however I can't see why a Lord of Gossamer could not be sensitive to situational opportunities that fit the parameters that they are searching for, providing of course that 1) it is possible to succeed and 2) that they are not opposed.
Let's say that Grant goes looking for 'true love' - I think I'd let him finding someone, but how does he really know that this person that he has met is really his 'true love'? Answer - he doesn't. That uncertainty is important in maintaining suspense. Besides, just meeting someone isn't the end of the story. Plenty of mileage for plot development even if the person he has met is his 'true love'. (again, I'm just putting out this as an example - it entirely depends upon what sort of game you're running)rtrimmer wrote:Is Wayfinding unstoppable? Can other Wayfinders assure that their plots won't be uncovered, that their opponents' security measures fail, etc? If not, everybody's plots against alert LoGs get revealed right quick. Non-noob LoGs would know that plotting is generally unworkable and either go straight to murder, to impromptu "Get 'im, boys!" attacks or just give it up.Good question. I think the GM needs to come up with their own mental framework as to what they are going to permit and where the boundaries are. That's why I thought I'd post up my thoughts on this topic.
Forget Wayfinding for a minute. The character with High Warfare with see through their opponents' security defences and make mincemeat of them - they will find the right path because they have High Warfare. The only time that they will be challenged or fail is if 1) it is not possible to succeed or 2) they are opposed. I see Wayfinding as no different.
Hope this helps. Good thoughts and thanks for sharing them.
PS: I've got the next section of Session 27 ready to post. I just need to find some neat graphics to insert.... I'll put it up tomorrow.
rtrimmer wrote:"Safe bed for the night" predicts the future. Also eliminates the necessity of ordinary security precautions and the possibility of exciting ambushes.I see this as a variation of (1) above. A "safe bed for the night" is subjective, not objective. Ethan looks for a Door that will give him a safe place to sleep. Probably many Doors resonate, but he goes for the one where the feeling is strongest, where there is currently a safe bed in which he can sleep. I agree with you that "for the night" is attempting to predict future events and there is no indication that a Lord of Gossamer can 'manipulate Shadow' like a Prince of Amber to affect a future outcome (e.g.: Florimel concentrates for a moment in "Nine Princes in Amber" and decides that her maid will not walk in any time soon). If Ethan finds that bed, it is in a place that is safe at that point in timebut it also fits Ethan's mental model as to what 'safe' means. It doesn't mean that it is truly safe. It doesn't prevent the *evil* Grant from sending an assassin to kill him in his sleep.
rtrimmer wrote:"Find Lucien" You can find anybody. They can find you.I see this as a variation of (1) and (2). It may not be possible to find Lucien - he could be dead. You can't find someone that doesn't exist. Equally, you could find someone called Lucien who is fact a close 'copy' of him (i.e.: Caine finds his own Shadow and kills him so that he can plant a body and disappear with everyone believing that he is dead). You could also find that Lucien doesn't want to be found which turns it into a contest of Psyche.
rtrimmer wrote:"Meeting another friendly Lord of Gossamer on the Stair" let's you know who is actually friendly and who is dissembling. You could also, carefully, determine who your enemies are. They can do the same to you -- you can't trick any LoC who takes precautions.Similar to the above, but assuming that you meet that Lord of Gossamer, how do you know that they are friendly? Ethan has Bad Stuff - maybe the Lord isn't friendly at all. Again, I don't see this as a magic "I can find you wherever you are" trick.
rtrimmer wrote:"Meet true love" So much for suspense. And, c'mon, LoGs are superhumanly charismatic, healthy, rich as they want to be, etc. and they need Wayfinding as a dating service too? (Though I like the idea of a PC doing this and then meeting their own double. Also, if Masters otGS with superior Psyches can determine what another Wayfinder is searching for Evil GM opportunities abound.)Meeting true love was just meant to be an example of searching for a favourable situation. I could just as easily picked "winning the lottery". I've already had it confirmed by jdurall that you can't use Wayfinding to alter probability (as an Amberite can in Amber DRPG) however I can't see why a Lord of Gossamer could not be sensitive to situational opportunities that fit the parameters that they are searching for, providing of course that 1) it is possible to succeed and 2) that they are not opposed.
rtrimmer wrote:Is Wayfinding unstoppable? Can other Wayfinders assure that their plots won't be uncovered, that their opponents' security measures fail, etc? If not, everybody's plots against alert LoGs get revealed right quick. Non-noob LoGs would know that plotting is generally unworkable and either go straight to murder, to impromptu "Get 'im, boys!" attacks or just give it up.Good question. I think the GM needs to come up with their own mental framework as to what they are going to permit and where the boundaries are. That's why I thought I'd post up my thoughts on this topic.
"- Ethan leaves Arcadia and starts home. He automatically knows where his Home Realm is (the rules say so - so it is almost like an internal compass, like always knowing where the north reference point is). But he should also be able to concentrate on the Arcadian Door and know where that is too! Simply by switching the 'object of he desire', he should know whether it is left or right, near or far. So take that thinking one step further, the more realms that a Lord of Gossamer has visited, the more complete a Lord's 'mental map' is of the Stair. If Ethan thinks about Versais, he'll know which way to go; if he thinks about Arcadia, he'll know which way to go. If he thinks about a realm where there is a safe bed for the night (which is a generic concept, not a specific target), he can find that too.
- So now take that concept even further. Can Ethan pursue multiple targets simultaneously? For example, he's walking on the Stair, heading to find Lucien (who is a long way away); but he's also looking for targets of opportunity along the way. He is interested in any worlds where the sky is green (and according to Wayfinding, he would know if he passed a Door where that condition was met); he is also interested in meeting another friendly Lord of Gossamer on the Stair (so if it is possible to achieve that, he would also feel a vague calling to head in a particular direction), and perhaps even more obscure, let's say that he's looking for a place where he'll meet true love (ouch! that would require right person, right place, right time!) - so that's a conditional situation without a specific target. I can't see why a Lord of Gossamer could not do all of those things, which then makes things very interesting,
- Let's take Grant for example. He's going to the Royal Ball in Marindar where he is hoping to find a way of uncovering part of the plot against Marindar. If someone used Wayfinding to effectively 'progress the plot' and it is possible to do so, then Grant can use Wayfinding to find that situation - the right person, at the right time and the right place. Of course he could still say or do the wrong things and the opportunity would be lost; but …. hey!! …. that makes Wayfinding extremely powerful, and perhaps rightly so."
Eek.
"Safe bed for the night" predicts the future. Also eliminates the necessity of ordinary security precautions and the possibility of exciting ambushes.
"Find Lucien" You can find anybody. They can find you.
"Meeting another friendly Lord of Gossamer on the Stair" let's you know who is actually friendly and who is dissembling. You could also, carefully, determine who your enemies are. They can do the same to you -- you can't trick any LoC who takes precautions.
"Meet true love" So much for suspense. And, c'mon, LoGs are superhumanly charismatic, healthy, rich as they want to be, etc. and they need Wayfinding as a dating service too? (Though I like the idea of a PC doing this and then meeting their own double. Also, if Masters otGS with superior Psyches can determine what another Wayfinder is searching for Evil GM opportunities abound.)
Is Wayfinding unstoppable? Can other Wayfinders assure that their plots won't be uncovered, that their opponents' security measures fail, etc? If not, everybody's plots against alert LoGs get revealed right quick. Non-noob LoGs would know that plotting is generally unworkable and either go straight to murder, to impromptu "Get 'im, boys!" attacks or just give it up.
EDIT: Crikey! I only just realised that Lurker37 and I have been running this game for over 7 months! I had no idea.
Email#1 to Lurker37 wrote:- Dayle is outside the main plotline. She is oblivious to what is happening and could be cruising around anywhere.I then thought of two more characters that he may want to use, particularly close to the near Earth realms:
- Mithrandir is also someone that you could have pop up as he is outside the current plotline. He has been relaxing/recuperating and I had a place in mind, but perhaps he has become active again. If you want to use Middle Earth, you're welcome to use it - I would just need to reveal one thing and then can go for it.
- Drake himself is probably someone that you don't want to touch, but Drake has Lords of Gossamers in his service. You could easily introduce one here as anything you like - villain, romantic foil, rival, ally. Also, don't underestimate the power of a good flunkie/minion. Meliander, Sophia, Shimrod, Morrison, Galatea and the Arcadian Queen are all powerful characters who are not Lords of Gossamer. Some may have talismans/magic to enable them to navigate on the Stair and be interesting villains, romantic foils, rivals, allies, friends etc.
- Cal is another one who could be introduced. The only thing you need to know is that he would be pretty spooked by Lucien's disappearance. He may know what has happened in Shatterlight or maybe not.
I also uploaded 174 photos to a new Photobucket album for Lurker37 to peruse which has lots of images for potential Lords of Gossamer or minions/flunkies - these are my unofficial/potential Lords. Some are in use already (eg: Sophia, the Emperor etc) but there were plenty to choose from.
Email#2 to Lurker37 wrote:- Arana, the Dwimmerlaik agent who controlled the Dark Tower, whom Grant spared and Ethan has never met. Nothing to stop you using her in the storyline. She could be on the run from the Dwimmerlaik, but more likely she went straight back to the fold, reported everything to her masters and is following new orders (she may not feel that she has any choice). She could be even working with/for Shimrod. Or perhaps she would turn up and ask Ethan for protection. Of course that could be a trap/part of a plot - up to you really.
- Shimrod - this guy is a player, and clearly has more lives than a cat. He's not as powerful as a Lord, but he is well connected and he plans ahead - eg: spells of recall, possibly even more than one body. Yes he is involved in the plot against Marindar, so he could easily turn up in one of the near-Marindar realms but he could just as easily turn up in the near Earth realms. Nothing to stop you introducing Shimrod either. Even though he appears to be an agent of the Dwimmerlaik, Shimrod is in it for himself. In his own mind, he is no one's servant.
The attraction of introducing either of these two is that it ties in with what has already gone before, and regardless of how you use them, I can probably tie some of into the overarching plot. There is plenty of room for Lurker37 to move with this though.
I also offered for David to take over the follow on plot to the Dwimmerlaik attempt to find Mithrandir (ie: what happens after you killed the Sable Guard guy), which he could easily do so as I haven't done much with this apart from assuming that the Dwimmerlaik now know that there are two new Lords of Gossamer. I suggested assuming that the Dwimmerlaik would send 'more' to that region of the stair. There is something happening in Middle Earth which I have just hinted at - he could even run that if he wanted to. Am easy.